"I'm sorry" doesn't change the past

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How many times have we heard the Catholic church apologising over their practices that have caused pain and distress to others? Now they're apologising for forced adoptions. [Read more]

You might think: at least they did apologise.

But do you think the apologies change anything other than public opinion?

Although I agree that holding on the past instead of moving on only hurts oneself (and not the church), but how do you "move on" from things like losing a child or losing your virginity and innocence to a priest?

For individuals, "I'm sorry" doesn't change the past.

I guess that's why their religion has to preach forgivness: because people of authority have done so many wrong things that require forgiveness repeatedly, over the years and with conscious thought even with group consensus. They claim that people who commit suicide have no hope of receiving forgiveness and will go to hell. It's not hard to guess who I think should really go to hell.

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ah, "I m sorry" - the person may not mean what they say.

And it doesn't mean it will not happen in future too!

David said...

Yu-Kym,

This cliche seems both inappropriate and apppropriate at the same time regarding your regard for the Catholic Church.

Your relationship and thoughts about the Catholic Church is Yu-Kym's cross to bear.

There I've said it.

Knowing nothing about your upbringing only tells me that you recieved a great deal of mis-information, half-truths and untruths regarding the Church's teaching regarding suidcide.

The Churh states this regarding the fate of those who take their own life:

"We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

From: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

Elaborating on this the Church teaches The condemnation of suicide should also be borne in mind since "suicide, when viewed objectively, is a gravely immoral act. In fact, it involves the rejection of love of self and the renunciation of the obligation of justice and charity towards one's neighbour, towards the communities to which one belongs, and towards society as a whole. In its deepest reality, suicide represents a rejection of God's absolute sovereignty over life and death"

Blame and responsibility have been made. People have been punished and/or imprisoned.

Yu-Kym, we both have submitted stories of wrong doing by business leaders, politicans, entertainers and other. Sexual wrong doings have always happened, and always will occur.

What prevents society from decending into a worldwide brothel?

Morality and how one chooses to live.

I am still word-smithing a contribution to your site and you have read the draft.

I am not perfect, not even close. Yet I hope I make more correct choices each day.

David

Yu-Kym said...

There's no need to get personal here.

The decisions made by the church were worse than "gravely immoral" act of suicide. The decisions were not just one person's act in a moment of folly but consciously thought through by groups of peopled trusted by the believers.

Suicide is like manslaughter - done in a moment of weakness, folly and unsound mind; the conscious thought process and execution of the plan by the church is like murder.

There is no cross that the church bears, no justice for the people who suffer.

David said...

Yu-Kym,

My apology if my was to personal.

I respect your right to a different opinion and seek learn the origins of the path that had lead to believe such.

No doubt great harm has been done.

History is full of harmful acts done in the name of one religion or another.

Even greater evil has been brought upone millions when the acts of purely secular leaders have acted.

People suffer regardless of who or what organization initiates harmful acts.

Acting together and a human family, as brothers and sisters we can bring pressure to bear on those in authority.

True this is never easy nor quick.
But change has occured, and more will occur.

No one is perfect! I know I am flawed. Great effort is required at times for the simplest improvement.

David

Anonymous said...

David,

The Catholic Church In USA has declared itself bankrupt.

Why?

So it does nt have to pay compensation to all those sexually molested by those Brothers & prists.

Why can't they go to Facebook and get some protitutes?

David said...

Anon,

Some Diocese have used bankrupcy to clear their books.

The crimes of the past are being paid for. The lives upset or unsettled have valid efforts made to help the victims understand what happened many years ago.

What the story in Australia failed to mention, is that the practice of unwed teen mothers never being allowed to see their babies was common through the western world during the 1950s. The ethos of that decade made an unwed mother a source of shame and dishonor, not only on the girl but also her family.

Birth control did not exist, abortion was not easily available.

The Catholic Church was not the only organization who recommended to parents of unwed teen mothers that the child be put up for adoption.

This happened in many public hospitals. Such behaviours while they seem cruel today were common and accepted into the early 1960s.

All churches, all faiths are only as good as the people who belong and attempt to practice a religous belief.

Being flawed beings we all fail, sometimes more often, other times less.

While some were indeed harmed efforts are in progress as mentioned to help these people lead more normal lives.

The Catholic Church among other things continues to be one of the world's most generous charitable organzitions. Many tens of millions receive, meals, shelter, health care, housing and education assistance from Catholic Charities.

Does this undo past wrongs? No it does not.

It demonstrates however that millions of people such myself and others give what we can to aid charitable efforts.

When you can claim perfection, or find a perfect belief system do let share with us such a great discovery.

David

Anonymous said...

Yu-Kym,

why so much anger with the Catholic Church ? These are also men acting under the Almighty guidance.

As David correctly observed, humans are all deeply flawed creatures. Pending an improvement in our DNA design, as long as there is mankind, there is inequality, wrongful acts, calamities, etc.

The Catholic Church is one of the institutions of mankind. Flawed or otherwise, that institution tries to alleviate some of the major wrongs of human society.

Leo

Vasily said...

Dear Yu-Kym,

This is a blog that focuses on sex. You don't need to write your opinion about the Catholic church because one could already guess.

Also, since you live remotely near China and Mean Korea, I would think that you'd be somewhat familiar with the truly cruel things that can happen. Religion has helped secure stuff like freedom of speech, and places that hate on religion often purge off their own population (suppression of the Falun Gong and Great Leap Forward).

None of this excuses the Catholic church, but come on, at least they're trying to become better. And less antagonistic too, unlike a certain country that interferes in the elections of the Dalai Lama and numerous bishops.

Anyway I was on here originally to read your things about internships; that was pretty interesting.

Anonymous said...

Falun Gong is a cult of groupie sex zombiea too!

David said...

Vasily,

Do not be so hard on Yu-Kym.

Most of her criticism of the Catholic Church are valid.

Her aim might be off, but she is correct that problems must be made right.

What Ms. Loh and no doubt many young people do not remember is that the 1950s and early 1960s, the acts Yu-Kym protest so strongly were commone through western societies. The 1950s were pre birth control.

Unwed mothers of any age were scorned, shamed and shunned.

Unwed working mothers could lose their jobs simply for being pregnant and unmarried!

Many public hosptital carried out similar actions. In some cases parents of teen mother could see the child before it was put up for adoption.

You are quite correct in pointing out the Catholic Church has been a force for greater good than harm.

Catholic Charities have helped and help this day tens of millions of people. In fact in many countries of South America and I believe a few places in Asia, the Church has health care facilties for undwed mothters. Teen mothers more than others are unprepared for the changes their bodies are going through. Unprepared for being ostracized by their parents of village.

Read more of Yu-Kym past association with the Catholic Church and you know better the source of her anger.

David

Yu-Kym said...

This wasn't a recommendation to give up the children for adoption. The children were taken away by force.

We don't need people to do bad things in order for others to show charity.

Leo, "why so much anger with the Catholic Church ? These are also men acting under the Almighty guidance." Because there are people who think what the church does is fine. It's unthinkable that god would have guided them to do such a thing. If they believe that the god guided them, they wouldn't be apologetic. And the church isn't apologetic anyway because they hastened the beatification of pope John Paul II despite the horrendous deeds against children that happened during his reign.

Vasily, welcome to my blog! I wasn't aware that the church did such things. I'm sure many people don't know about it either.

David said...

Vasily & Yu-Kym,

What John Paul II did during his period as Pope was to begin exposing this horrible problem and methodically rooting those who perpetrated the worst actions, such as sexual abuse of children.

Forcibly taking babies from undwed teen mothers as mentioned was common throughout western cultures.

Taking babies from undwed mothers was simply standard procedure in most of the west. Perhaps I need to repeat that working single unwed women could and did lose jobs because they were pregnant outside marriage.

Unwed mothers were subject to public scorn, shame and ridicule.

Unwed teen mothers were hidden away as best possible to protect the honor of the girls and her family.

The wealthy could send preganat daughters far away, often to foreign countries under false pretense so the teen mother could deliver the baby and have the newborn adopted.

John Paul II did make some mistakes, however when possessing full knowledge of the scope of the wrongdoing decades before he was elected to the papacy John Paul II started the wheels for change within the Church. Priest and other religious were turned over to authorities in the States. The Church handed over evidence to aid investigations.

Yes it to too long, but one must look at the period when all this occurred. The societal ethos was VERY different from what we have now and since the early 1990s.

One cannot look at events that occured in the 1940-1950s in the same light as one looks at current events.

Remember that just a 120-150 years ago and before then during all of humankind's history that one person could have another human as a slave. Owning another humas slave was for thousand's of years normal and accepted by societies.

Christ was the first person ever who told one man that a person unrelated by bloodline was also his brother. That seed of the idea that all humans are brothers and sisters took thousands of years to take root around the world and lead to the eventual, but still not complete, abolotion of human slavery.

Again all humans are flawed, we cause and tolerate our kinds most horrific behaviours and our kind can show and accomplish the greatest acts of kindness and compasion.

David